Author Topic: Network & SATA tests possible in DOS?  (Read 8754 times)

Offline cordeg

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Since the PC Doctor system can boot from a DOS USB stick (given the BIOS supports USB boot), can I assume that NIC and SATA tests can be performed so long as the appropriate Intel network driver (apparently available for the 82571EB on the Intel website) and SATA driver are loaded by the config.sys on the USB drive?

Offline fwilson

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cordeg,

No drivers needed.  The SATA and network card tests are performed by direct interaction with the controllers.

-Fred
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching.”  ~ J.C. Watts

Offline cordeg

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Good -- I think.  Does this mean that the Network and SATA tests are limited to just reading/writing registers in the corresponding controller chips, or do they contain enough code/smarts to be able to run a network loopback and/or SATA driver read/write test as well, even without external drivers?

Offline fwilson

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cordeg,

The SATA/PATA code does full controller, disk read and write testing.
The Network Tests do loopback, link and internal diags.

-Fred
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching.”  ~ J.C. Watts

Offline cordeg

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Sorry to be persistent, but I've been burned by misunderstandings with another diagnostic vendor whose product failed (miserably so) to provide the capabilities that the product sales people promised.

Now, here it seems the PC-Doctor sales presentation UNDER-promises instead!  For example, neither the Windows nor the DOS diagnostics mention "SATA" at all (!) and the "Network loopback" test is ONLY mentioned in the WINDOWS diagnostics list.  The DOS list -- which is the only one that could be self-booted from the USB stick -- only uses the terms "Intel Network" and "Intel Network Link", neither of which gives any indication as to the extent of what they can test (In fact, if you click the homepage link for the combined Win/DOS/Linux test list, the DOS section doesn't even go this far, and only says "Network Test" under "Miscellaneous" Tests, which makes it sound positively trivial).  If what you say about the self-booting DOS test environment is true, then PC-Doctor really has to revamp their website sales pitch to blow their own horn better.

BTW, this is the "PC Doctor Service Center 7.5" product we are describing, correct?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 07:03:30 pm by cordeg »

Offline fwilson

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cordeg,

Point taken, thanks for the input. I will bring your points up to the marketing department. Yes we are talking about Service center 7.5

First insofar as the SATA tests are concerned they are considered essential to hard drive tests. in modern computers you can't test hard drives without "speaking SATA". I guess the marketing people thought that it goes without saying. PC-Doctor works with all known SATA controllers, without any additional drivers. The code is designed to talk directly to the controllers just as a driver would.

The only time a driver is needed to test hard disks is for SCSI and SAS drives, in these cases a DOS ASPI driver is loaded via the config.sys and off we go.

The reason the Ethernet card tests are not touted more in the DOS product is they will ONLY work with Intel ethernet cards.  On these Intel cards, an internal diagnostics and a network link test are available.  Since the tests we run are provided to PC-Doctor by Intel for incorporation with our product, they are pretty thourough.  With the plethora of low cost generic cards out there to speak in broader terms could mislead potential customers.

Our product is used on most major OEM manufacturing lines and repair depots. It also comes preloaded on many systems by the manufacturers.  The DOS and Windows products are meant to be complimentary.  The DOS product talks directly to the hardware, helping to diagnose systems that can not boot into Windows or have low level failures.  The Windows product can do more in depth testing and can test many more devices, it is however dependant on drivers and the proper installation and operation of same.

In closing, we go to great lengths to provide a quality product, our large OEM customer base provides us with insight as to new systems and chipsets and get well ahead of the curve in providing tests for these systems.  Our goal is a quality product and happy customers.  Order Service Center and if you are not happy you have 30 days to return it for a full refund (return shipping on you).


-Fred
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching.”  ~ J.C. Watts

Offline cordeg

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Fred -

Thanks so much for your detailed responses.  This is the kind of responsiveness that I was looking for and couldn't find with the other diagnostic tools I surveyed.  Alas, among your competitors universally the case that the people I could talk to knew less about the technical aspects of the tests their companies' products could run than I did -- which makes for a frustrating search!  And while it may seem obvious to both you and I that you can't really say a product tests a PC unless it can test SATA, you'd be surprised how glibly your competitors brush off the inability for their products to perform such tests without using the Windows- or Linux-level version of their product.  Self-booting tests that do not require an existing OS image are severely constrained and little attempt seems to be made to address the issue you described so matter-of-factly.  Indeed, it is hard even to describe the other PC board test suites as "competitors" of PC Doctor based on the apparent difference between your testing philosophy and that expressed by them.

On the NIC front, can I assume then that an on-board NIC based on the Intel 82571EB would be test-able using the Service Center 7.5 kit USB stick DOS boot?

Offline fwilson

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cordeg,
 
You are correct, the Intel 82571EB is testable under the DOS product, either USB or CD boot.

Thanks for taking the time to look at out product and your kind words.

-Fred
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 10:51:48 am by fwilson »
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching.”  ~ J.C. Watts

Offline cordeg

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Fred:

Thanks again for your help.  I am now in possession of your Service Center 7.5, and have a few questions about the results I am getting with regard to both the Network and SATA tests we discussed above.

First, the Network Information screen always says "No NetBIOS, IPX or Network Adapter found."  Rebooting and/or power-cycling has no effect on this.  The board under test has an Intel 82571EB-based GbE controller.

Oddly enough, the actual Network diagnostics DO run, which seems a little contradictory.

BUT, I have noticed that one test that fails is the SMBus test, which simply says that "No SMBus detected."  I know the board actually does have an Intel 82801GBM (ICH7) and a Phoenix BIOS that supports System Management BIOS, and that both this and the "SMBIOS Int15 API" are enabled in that BIOS (in fact, running your "SMBIOS Info" screen reports "SM BIOS : Detected" with "Revision : 2.3".  However, it seems that something is amiss with the SMBus, because the "SMBIOS Info" screen reports 2 memory devices, but cannot seem to query the SPD info via the SMBus to report any info on these memory devices (e.g., data width = "??").  Is this why the Network Information screen says there is no adapter, yet the tests still run -- because the former relies on the SMBus to talk to the network adapter while the latter doesn't?

Also, the Network tests themselves only return partial success, and I'm not sure why.  The "Intel Network" test gives PASSED for both ports on this dual-port device, however, the "Intel Network Link" test reports FAILED.  In both cases, the in-progress output notes the "Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Connection", then a line reading "*** Location: Bus=2 Dev=0 Func=0 (or 1) IRQ=5 (or 9)", but in the case of the "Intel Network", the 2nd such set of lines is followed by the overall "PASSED" declaration, while in the latter case, the 2nd set of lines is followed by "*** Network Link/External Loopback Test Failed (Status=C86B8007h)" and then the overall "FAILED" declaration.  Is this penultimate line trying to tell me that only the 2nd GbE port failed, or is it a summary message regarding both ports?  I am only able to connect ONE of the two GbE network ports to an actual network, because the 2nd port does not physically have a jack soldered to it -- so, is this one "Status" message telling me that the loopback could not succeed on that port, but the lack of a similar line after the 1st set of lines implies that the loopback on the first port passed?

Meanwhile, on the SATA front, our SATA drive does not seem to get recognized at all by the tests.  The list of hard drives includes only a IDE CF drive we use for C:, but not the SATA drive used for data.  The board contains two SATA ports, but only one is implemented directly on the Intel ICH7 device (this port is unused), while the second port is hung off a Silicon Image 3531 SATA controller connected to the PCIe bus from the ICH7.  Is it possible that this indirect/layered nature makes our SATA drive "invisible" to your test software?

Offline fwilson

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cordeg,

The network information screen is only used when there is a network driver loaded (tcp/ip or netbios) or the system has been booted from PXE.  If this is not the case it will be blank.  I can see where this is misleading, maybe the screen should be titled Network adapters with drivers loaded. The Intel network tests talk directly to the card with no intervening drivers so they will still work. 

For the link test, you hit it on the head. All ports need to either have the loopback connector installed or be plugged into an active network to pass the link test.  On Gigabit controllers sometimes the loopback connector does not work properly so plugging into an active network is always desired.  The link test is roughly equivalent to the link light on the port or switch.

The No SMBus detected means that the SMBus is not fully exposed to us for testing. A tech support form would be helpfull.  I will go over it with one of the DOS engineers, there may be a setting we can change. I will request one from you privately.

On the SATA front "usually" there is not an issue using SATA add on cards.  In general if they are available to the PC's BIOS and you could boot from them if you wanted to we are good to go.  I looked at the SiI3531 and there were some updates that mentioned integration with system bios.  I'm not sure who made your card or if they are applicable but this is what I was looking at http://www.siliconimage.com/support/searchresults.aspx?pid=80&cat=15. Is this a generic card using the 3531 chipset or a name brand one?

-Fred


 
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching.”  ~ J.C. Watts

Offline cordeg

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Fred:

Thanks again for a lucid explanation of things. 

To address the final point first, the "second" SATA interface isn't an add-on card at all, but is actually on-board and simply separate from the ICH7 ports (for reasons that aren't exactly clear, it actually leaves one of the ICH7 channels unused and "replaces" it with the Sil3531-based channel).  The BIOS is a Phoenix "StrongFrame" BIOS with a release date of 10/20/2009, so it would appear to be very up-to-date.

On the network front, I am a bit chagrined by the reporting style of some of the "multiple-instance" tests in the DOS product, and would suggest a feature addition of a "verbose" style to the logs.  I can appreciate the desire to keep things brief for those who may have only limited space in which to store a test log (e.g., RAM disk), but it would be nice to be able to get more thorough reports at the user's option. 

For example, in the Network Link test, I get exactly the same log output when I have ONE port connected to a network as when I have NO ports connected -- that is, the log does not say that Port#1 PASSED, Port#2 FAILED, but merely that the loopback test FAILED.  Period.  Brevity may be the soul of wit, but this seems a tad too terse.

This also applies in a few other cases, where the test "hierarchy" has more than two levels.  That is, when a test comprises several "sub-tests", the log file tends to list the results of each of these sub-tests (e.g., RAM Memory).  But, sometimes, when another level intervenes, the lowest level results get "rolled up" into a summary report for the level above (e.g., the network and network link tests).  Clearly, the product "knows" the results of these lowest level tests, as it must summarize them by some accumulation -- it simply doesn't log those results as it accumulates them.  For instance, there is an "EEPROM Test" within each Port under the "Intel Network" test, but the results of this sub-test are rolled-up along with the Device Registers test and the Phy Loopback test, and all the other sub-tests for each of the two Ports to create one summary PASSED/FAILED report for the entire "Intel Network" test.  On the other hand, the CPU/Coprocessor tests show all sub-tests (level 2) for all CPUs (level 1), rather than, for example, declaring that "CPU Registers" FAILED, and having to figure out which of the two CPUs might have been the culprit.  This seems an anomaly in the product operation.  As you may have surmised, lack of "parallelism" is something of a pet peeve of mine, but in this case it really does have a substantive affect on what I can say and cannot say about the product I am testing.  I don't know how likely it is that this would change any time soon.

Any approach you think seems reasonable on the SMBus front would be welcome.  Just let me know what kind of information might help you deduce what is going on.  As I mentioned, the SMBIOS Info screen does report SM BIOS support at revision 2.3, for whatever that's worth.  Once you get down to system slots and memory devices, however, there are a lot of "Unknown" and "N/A" entries, leading me to conclude that communication over the SMBus is not succeeding.  Since the board does boot, however, I suspect that the BIOS itself is correctly communicating to devices via the SMBus.  This makes it appear as though the SMBus is not properly useable by clients of the BIOS -- such as PC-Doctor, for example, or -- pointedly -- any driver-level code I might want to put on the board.

Offline fwilson

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cordeg,

I sent you a pm with my contact information.  Please attach a tech support form and provide the Make and model of the motherboard. We'll see what we can come up with on the SMBus. Some unknown devices are unavoidable as the tables for everything possible would be huge, we do strive to hit the majority.

On the SATA drives, how is it set up in the BIOS.  Try setting it to SATA/IDE or compatible mode for the DOS testing and see if they show.  Sometimes the AHCI mode gives us problems.

The logs are set to the verbose mode by default, the other option is log errors only. When the tests are complete and you press F3 to view /save the log are you saying the individual CPU's and Network cards are not shown separately? You should be able to see each device and each subtest. Like:

CPU 1 CPU Registers.........................Passed
...
CPU 2 CPU Registers.........................Passed
...
CPU 3 CPU Registers.........................Passed
...
CPU 4 CPU Registers.........................Passed


Once again thanks for your input.


-Fred 
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 10:16:00 am by fwilson »
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching.”  ~ J.C. Watts